“Boobs” is a fun word to say—if you’re 7. Unfortunately, that’s a little young to be appearing on CNN, which is why it was shocking when a fully adult male guest on CNN anchor Brooke Baldwin’s show wouldn’t stop repeating the word—to the point where she had to shut down the whole live interview. Before you ask: no, the interview had nothing to do with mastectomies; no, he wasn’t an expert on breast cancer; no, he wasn’t a sex expert talking about nipplegasms (which are real). He was Fox Sports Radio’s Clay Travis, who was there for a discussion about calls from the White House saying ESPN should fire anchor Jemele Hill (she’d called President Donald Trump a “white supremacist” on Twitter).
He was one of two guests during this segment of Baldwin’s show; the other, former ESPN senior editor Keith Reed, was there to presumably present a different opinion.
Travis contributed to what could have been an intellectual debate with the following: “I’m a First Amendment absolutist. I believe in only two things completely: the First Amendment and boobs.”
Baldwin stopped him and said: “I just want to make sure I understood you correctly, as a woman anchoring this show. What did you just say? You believe in the First Amendment and b-double-o-b-s?”
Travis nodded, serenely. “Boobs. The only two things that have never let me down in this entire country’s history: the First Amendment and boobs.”
K.
“I’ve been a journalist for 17 years—the past seven spent at CNN hosting a live show,” wrote Baldwin in an op-ed published on CNN.com on Saturday. “I’ve seen and heard some things. But when I first heard ‘boobs’ from a grown man on national television (in 2017!!!) my initial thought bubble was: ‘Did I hear that correctly?? There’s no WAY he just came on my show and said what I think he said. … DID HE?’ And I let it hang.”
Baldwin had the added pressure of live television to figure out what to do next. Travis had just introduced a heavily sexualized part of the female anatomy into a completely unrelated discussion. As producers scrabled to figure out what they’d just heard (“Booze?”), she continued by asking an aghast Reed what he thought.
“Listen, I’m astonished at almost everything I’ve just heard,” he said, before adding, “For someone to come on CNN and to say something like, ‘The only thing I believe in and the discussion about..”
“I’m just, I’m still there too,” Baldwin interrupted. She addressed Travis: “And I just want to make sure I’m hearing you correctly: b-o-o-z-e? Or b-o-o-b-s? Because as a woman—”
“I said boobs!” Travis doubled down. “I believe completely in the First Amendment and in boobs. Those are the only two things I believe 100 percent in.”
Baldwin continued in her op-ed: “I thought again: ‘It is 2017, and this grown man is on my show talking with me—a female host—about boobs. Is this seriously happening?’
In the interview, Travis tries vainly to bring it around to Hill, but the damage is done. “Guys!” Baldwin says. “Why would you even say that live on national television? And with a female host? Why would you even go there?”
Valid question. “I say it live on the radio all the time!” Travis says before reiterating the only point he’s made.
“And then,” Baldwin writes, “I did something I’ve done only a handful of times in my career. I told the control room to kill his mic and said ‘bye.’ I invite a variety [of] people on my show with wide-ranging opinions —sometimes even my jaw hits the floor, too—but I let them speak. Whether it’s left, right or center—I want to expose my viewers to other perspectives. Agree with them or not, the nation needs to listen.
But this … was different.”
What Travis, who identifies as a “Southern white conservative,” didn’t realize is that even if you have the right to say whatever you want, you’re not exempt from the consequences of your words. (Most people learn this before they learn “boobs”.) Travis had literally one job to do—express his view, hopefully in an eloquent, insightful manner—and he messed it up on word eight.
Baldwin is a strong advocate for women’s issues and dedicates her time outside of her two-hour daily show on CNN to a project called “American Woman.” As she writes, “I want to help lift women’s voices. And I realize, in doing that, I need to use my own.”
The Peabody finalist won’t be asking Travis back again, she wrote. As she ended her op-ed, “Maybe he should learn from folks over at Fox News—being demeaning to women does have consequences.”
Watch the interview yourself:
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