Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my mind was blow when I found out Love killed Candace.
Ambyr [Childers, who plays Candace] is so great. Her character is so incredible. Her performance is so great in the show, as one of the only sane people who’s really fighting for some form of justice. [Love] doesn’t really always understand her methods, but she’s trying to protect people from this person who wronged her when she doesn’t really need to. She could just stay in Italy and be safe. But I think we know that when something bad happens and we’re scared it could affect other people, there’s this courage that can come out of it.
I thought it was a badass feminist move for Candace to advocate for getting people to stay away from Joe.
I’m definitely a woman who believes in sisterhood and the important place that women supporting other women plays in the whole movement towards equality. It’s incredible how in making up around 50% of the population, we are an oppressed majority. That has only been possible by us working against each other. That’s because of the structures that be and whatnot. [But we’re] reminding [people] that Joe is benefiting not only from the way in which we are programmed, but also by other people who protect him.
Ambyr Childers as Candace in You.
Beth Dubber/Netflix
What do you hope viewers take away from the second season?
I think it’s a mix of things. I think it’s important to focus on how our instincts can’t always show us everything, that it’s important to be careful about the interactions we have and the people we interact with. And at the same time, there’s so much beauty in taking risks and having trust. I hope we don’t walk around just scared of each other because of this show. I think there’s different things for everyone. Everyone’s going to relate to it differently and take something else away from it. I hate to tell people what to think.
Would you be down for a third season?
Yeah!
Do you have any dreams for how it would go, or are you open to anything?
No. I think I learned pretty early on that I can’t predict shit with this show, so I’m ready to be blown away.
You season 2 is now streaming on Netflix.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
Christopher Rosa is the staff entertainment writer at Glamour. Follow him on Instagram @chris.rosa92.
As the daughter of one of the most notorious crime bosses, Victoria Gotti wants you to know there’s more to her family than you think. “We’re human,” she tells Glamour. “If people see that, that’s all they need to know.” They’ll get their chance this weekend with the latest Lifetime true crime movieVictoria Gotti: My Father’s Daughter.
Gotti executive produces and narrates the movie about her life, which does a deep dive into her childhood and teenage years. Chelsea Frei (YouTube’s Sideswiped) plays Gotti as an adult, and General Hospital Emmy-winner Maurice Benard plays her father, John Gotti. “I wanted to do justice to somebody who is alive and well,” Frei says. “I remember meeting Victoria and thinking, ‘This isn’t just the stories that I knew over the years. This is a really genuine person with a family.'”
Gotti credits Lifetime for giving her a say in the casting process, and she’s excited for people to see a different side of her family. Read more of our interview with her, Frei, and Benard, below.
Glamour: Maurice and Cheslea, how much did you know about the Gotti family before this film?
Chelsea Frei: I knew a bunch. I’m from Boston and everybody is obsessed with the Gottis there. I never saw Growing Up Gotti until I started auditioning for this film, but it’s so good.
Maurice Benard: I watched all of it, and it was a trip. I loved it. You didn’t know what was going to happen from one second to the next.
Victoria, how involved were you with Maurice and Chelsea’s casting?
Victoria Gotti: I was very much part of it, but I have to give [Lifetime] credit because I think, in the end, they wouldn’t make a decision without my final approval, which was nice. [With Maurice], I told them, ‘I think he’s the guy.’ And then Chelsea was right after that. They’re both brilliant. I thank Lifetime for [acknowledging I know] who is going to be better at playing the people that I know better than anybody else there does.
Chelsea and Maurice, how nerve-wracking was it to meet Victoria, especially given her hands-on involvement in the project?
Maurice: For Chelsea, it was difficult because Victoria’s right there [and she’s playing her]. It’s like if I had John Gotti in front of me; it’s a lot of pressure and would be very difficult. But for me, it’s a very difficult and very exhilarating role. The best advice was from Victoria when she said to play [John] like Michael Corleone in The Godfather and not Tony Soprano. And also, I had a great connection with Chelsea. It was like a father/daughter [relationship].
Lifetime
Chelsea: I’ll never forget when we met in the hotel the first day, and I was very excited because I grew up watching General Hospital. When I found out I was doing the movie, my mom was freaking out and then I was like, ‘And guess who’s playing John Gotti?!’ I mean, it was just crazy. I’m such a fan.
Victoria, you narrate the film and appear on camera. Was that your decision?
Victoria: I wish I could take the credit for that, but I can’t. The network called me…I was against it.
So why did you say yes?
Victoria: They threatened me. [Laughs] I’m kidding. They said if I didn’t like it when we finished, they’d take it out.
What was the most challenging scene?
Maurice: Everything kept me up at night. I truly wanted to be great for Victoria, because it’s her father. I wanted to be great for Chelsea, who I’m working with. Same for Catherine [Cyran], the director. And for Lifetime. So it was non-stop pressure. I haven’t seen the movie, but I’ve seen enough [clips] to know it looks amazing. Chelsea’s amazing. I’m pretty good. I think I’m actually good. [Laughs]
When the Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show taped on November 8, there are some things we know to expect: pink satin robes, glossy air kisses, bedazzled push-up bras, elaborate angel wings. If the casting announcements are any indication, we can also expect to see the usual army of 5’10, size-two models—not surprising for a runway show, perhaps, but a far cry from the direction much of the lingerie industry is headed.
During the past few years, Victoria’s Secret’s competitors—including Aerie, ThirdLove, and Rihanna’s Savage x Fenty—have built their brands on messages of self-acceptance and body positivity, touting diverse casts of models, Photoshop-free campaigns, and (relatively) broad size ranges. And they’ve reaped rewards in the form of sales and social media accolades. Nearly every new startup in the lingerie space has “inclusivity” baked into its mission statement. And at the mass level, retailers like Target and J.Crew now cast non-sample-sized models in marketing materials as a matter of course.
Victoria’s Secret appears to be holding their ground, a fact that some of the brand’s rivals and critics have seized upon as a marketing opportunity of their own, calling for boycotts and staging campaigns with pointed hashtags like #ImNoAngel (Lane Bryant) and #weareallangels (ThirdLove and curve model Robyn Lawley). Ashley Graham—perhaps the most obvious candidate for a spot on Victoria’s Secret’s roster, with her 7.5 million Instagram followers and ample runway experience— skewered the brand on social media last year, posting an image of herself in a lingerie set by plus-size brand Addition Elle and a Photoshopped set of angel wings on the same day VS taped its show. The caption: “Got my wings! … #thickthighssavelives.”
Graham’s post racked up nearly 775,000 likes, putting it on par with some of the most popular images from the show itself, according to an analysis by Instagram marketing firm Dash Hudson.
If Victoria’s Secret was still the seemingly unstoppable juggernaut that it was throughout most of the 2000s and 2010s, then the old argument that “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” might apply. But since early 2016, parent company L Brands has reported quarter after quarter of declining sales and shrinking profits. And CBS, which had aired the annual fashion show, said that ratings in 2017 were down 30 percent from the year prior among viewers aged 18-49, with just under 5 million people tuning in to the broadcast. (In 2018, the Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show has a new network home: ABC.)
PHOTO: Matt Winkelmeyer
There could be many factors at play here—new competitors in the lingerie space, changing viewership habits and shopping behavior… But the consumers Victoria’s Secret needs to connect with in order to sustain itself in the future—younger millennials and generation Z—tend to respond to brands they perceive as authentic and values-driven, and shun the hyper-sexualized imagery that appealed to previous generations, according to research firm PSFK. Gen Z, roughly defined as teens and young adults born between 1997 and 2010, will account for 40 percent of all consumers by 2020, ad agency Barkley predicts, together holding up to $143 billion in direct spending power; younger millennials, meanwhile, are now exiting their college years and generating income of their own, making them an increasingly enticing demographic for brands.
Victoria’s Secret has done an exceptionally good job at meeting these shoppers where they spend a significant portion of their time: Instagram. It has cast celebrity models like Kendall Jenner and Gigi Hadid, who boast 97 million and 44 million followers respectively, in its annual fashion show. The brand’s Angels, the select group of models on long-term contract, make frequent appearances on its social media channels. But while this online reach helps ensure the Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show is seen by hundreds of millions around the world, that doesn’t necessarily translate into sales.
“There’s a difference between buzz and buyers,” explains Jeetendr Sehdev, New York Times bestselling author of The Kim Kardashian Principle and celebrity branding authority. “And while Victoria’s Secret continues its buzz, it’s suffering on the buyers front.”
Body positivity, meanwhile, is “one of the key movements within the lingerie industry,” says Jo Lynch, lingerie editor at trend forecaster WGSN. Take the acclaim of Savage x Fenty, which closed New York Fashion Week with a runway show-performance art hybrid starring an exceptionally diverse cast of models and dancers, as “a good example of a sexier brand sending out a clear message about who the lingerie is for, and who should enjoy it: the women who wear it.”
Can Victoria’s Secret thrive with the same old formula? The brand doesn’t normally comment publicly on the lack of body diversity among its models. But decisions about its annual runway extravaganza can’t be taken lightly: The Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show takes a full year of planning and can cost upwards of $20 million to produce, L Brands’ Chief Marketing Officer Ed Razek told the New York Times in 2016.
In a statement provided to Glamour, Monica Mitro, EVP of Public Relations at Victoria’s Secret, said: “The women in this year’s show are from all over the world. They represent many stages of a modeling career and each has her own story to tell. Scrutinizing women’s bodies of any size related to the Victoria’s Secret brand is unfortunate because it puts judgement on women of any body type. Victoria’s Secret believes the body positivity dialogue should be positive. It should not be done by putting other women down, including the 60 women that are excited to be in our Fashion Show. These women represent so many important aspects of diversity that should be celebrated beyond solely focusing on their bodies.”
PHOTO: Getty
PHOTO: Getty
Razek and Mitro also sat down with Vogue this year, and, in a story published the day of the show’s taping, responded to some of the criticisms it has faced. “I think we address the way the market is shifting on a constant basis,” he said. “If you’re asking if we’ve considered putting a transgender model in the show or looked at putting a plus-size model in the show, we have. We invented the plus-size model show in what was our sister division, Lane Bryant. Lane Bryant still sells plus-size lingerie, but it sells a specific range, just like every specialty retailer in the world sells a range of clothing. As do we. We market to who we sell to, and we don’t market to the whole world.”
In terms of its fashion show casting, Victoria’s Secret puts heavy emphasis on physical fitness, messaging it’s ramped up in the past few years with its “Train Like an Angel” campaigns, which push the brand’s activewear offerings and might serve to silence critics who contend that Victoria’s Secret’s idea of “what’s sexy” is all about being thin. Models frequently talk about the intensive training regimes they embark on months before the show.
But the brand would hardly have to give up its fitness-first narrative in order to add a few curvy models to its lineup. Graham, for one, trains at New York’s Dogpound gym, where many of the Angels are regulars. Candice Huffine is a runner with her own line of size-inclusive activewear. Marquita Pring can swing a set of kettlebells with the best of them. If the show is the modeling world’s Super Bowl, as it’softencalled, then a size 8 or 14 can train just as hard for it as a size 0.
And while any change is sure to bring out some haters, the praise will almost certainly drown them out, if the runways of New York Fashion Week are any indication. In recent seasons, brands like Christian Siriano that have made diversity a priority have not only been celebrated in the press, but have ultimately boosted their bottom lines.
Casting director Hollie Schliftman, who helps bring Siriano’s vision to life every season, declined to comment on Victoria’s Secret directly, but she says she understands why some brands are still holding out when it comes to their casting. “I see how people just love to do what they’re used to,” she says. “It’s hard—this industry is a really hard [one] and people are very critical and very judgmental. So it is taking a risk going out of the norm of what people are used to, but it’s so nice to see that people… that there are some designers that really just believe in what they believe in and they take the risk and they do it.”
PHOTO: Getty
PHOTO: Getty
PHOTO: Getty
Any change, though, has to come from the top, according to casting director Gilleon Smith, whose work with New York brand Chromat has also earned widespread accolades for its radical inclusivity.
“I’ve always said this a lot, but fashion is not a progressive industry,” Smith says. “It’s very traditional, which people don’t really get, but people kind of stick with who they know—what photographer, what stylist—and nobody really goes outside of that in terms of working with different creative teams unless something bad happens. So I think that Victoria’s Secret has had this formula that they use, and they have the same people continuing on the legacy and the tradition of what they’ve always done, and that is their barometer or metric for success.”
Size, however, seems to be a more challenging frontier. One hurdle may be the fact that Victoria’s Secret simply doesn’t carry sizes larger than a 40DDD in bras and an XL (equivalent to a size 16) in panties and apparel, meaning many, if not most plus-size models are already sized out of the line. That could create another problem: If the brand were to cast someone like Graham, who wears a size 16, it could come off as disingenuous if Victoria’s Secret didn’t also commit to expanding its size range—more a ploy for press than a genuine desire to reach an untapped market.
Perhaps it’s a commitment to the promise of “fantasy”—an adjective it uses in its marketing materials, and to describe the multimillion-dollar bra one lucky model wears every year—over reality. This fantasy, to hear the brand’s executives tell it, is the idea that every girl can aspire to be like a Victoria’s Secret model: “It’s a celebration of powerful women by powerful women who work very hard at what they do, live a healthy life and inspire legions of admirers,” Razek told the Times in 2016.
PHOTO: Getty
Chromat’s Smith, however, has a somewhat different take: “It’s kind of like a Christmas special. It’s this whimsical fashion cartoon that everybody’s watching.” The show, in this sense, is more like pageantry than a reflection of the real world (though even Miss America dropped its swimsuit competition this year).
But does fantasy still resonate with today’s shopper? According to YouGov, a market research and data analytics firm, 70 percent of U.S. consumers between the ages of 18 and 34—Victoria’s Secret’s prime demographic—say they like seeing “real looking people” in ads.
“Consumers more than ever connect to the product through those people presenting them, so if the models are not engaging the customer or they feel like they can’t somehow relate then the casting has failed,” say Drew Dasent and Daniel Peddle, casting directors and co-founders of The Secret Gallery, who declined to comment on Victoria’s Secret’s casting choices.
“If you’re looking at Victoria’s Secret and the people who shop there, it’s people completely across the U.S. and beyond,” says Smith. “And I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want to have representation of all kinds.”
Sehdev, the brand marketing expert, says Victoria’s Secret will need to act fast and decisively if it wants to hold onto its place at the top. “It’s a highly competitive market, so it’s great that they have made some movement [in terms of racial diversity], but they have truly got to make some radical changes moving forward,” he says. “They have to really reinvent and reimagine the brand in a way that is fresh, provocative, bold, and brazen for a new generation of consumers that think, act, and feel very differently.”
Despite its recent challenges, Victoria’s Secret is still a multi-million brand with the power to make supermodels’ careers and broadcast its image of what sexy looks like to countless women around the world. It’s a mall staple, and, with its teen-geared Pink brand, the first lingerie store that many American girls shop at. With a broader range of sizes, it might be fair to say that its clientele would be nearly as diverse as the country itself.
“The brand has a specific image, has a point of view,” Razek told Vogue. “It has a history. It’s hard to build a brand. It’s hard to build Vogue, Ralph Lauren, Apple, Starbucks. You have a brand position and you have a brand point of view. The girls who have earned their way into the show have worked for it… And all of these things that [other brands] ‘invented,’ we have done and continue to do.”
The question now is what will the lingerie giant do with the influence it still wields?
After months of will they or won’t they speculation surrounding the possibility of a reunion tour, the former pop stars finally confirmed the long-awaited plans today (November 5) on Twitter. In a spoof video sharing the news and details of the tour, the women were joined by singer Jess Glynne, to kick off ticket sales, which start Saturday. However, one of the group’s former bandmates was noticeably absent from the video.
Despite the initial belief that all five of the Spice Girls would potentially be touring together, Beckham quickly shot down those rumors in a post to her Instagram account Monday, where she announced she would not be joining the tour, but wished the rest of her former bandmates the best of luck.
“Today marks a special day for the girls as they announce the first tour dates since we performed together in 2012! I won’t be joining my girls on stage again but being in the Spice Girls was a hugely important part of my life and I wish them so much love and fun as they go back on tour next year. I know they will put on an amazing show and the fantastic fans past and present are going to have a wonderful time! X vb #spicegirls #friendshipneverends”
“I’m the only one that keeps on saying we’re going to be performing, which, we are gonna be performing,” the star told Kotb on the air. “Finally, they’ve got it together. Yes. We are touring. Should I have really said that out loud? Yes, we are going to be doing performances together for sure.”
You already know the story of how Victoria Beckham came to prominence as a Spice Girl, but given how difficult it is to break into fashion—and be taken seriously—it’s pretty unbelievable that “Posh” just celebrated ten years as a prestige designer.
After the Spice Girls broke up in 2000, Beckham dabbled in modeling, solo music, and even design collaborations before ultimately deciding to launch her namesake brand in 2008. Becoming a fully-fledged, respected designer came with its hurdles, though, like the assumption that Beckham’s interest in fashion was of the fleeting variety. “I’m very aware of people’s preconceptions,” she toldWWD in 2011. But she didn’t let critics deter her from designing.
That persistence has paid off. In November, the Victoria Beckham brand was valued at £100 million (or about $131.4 million, at the current exchange rate), according to The Telegraph. For her 10th anniversary, she decided to move her Spring 2019 runway show from New York to London Fashion Week; the collection drew praise for its simple, tailored designs and age-inclusive casting. “What we did was celebrate being different. We showed it was okay to be who you are,” Beckham told Vogue backstage. “And that’s what this is about—empowering women through fashion.”
The journey from pop stardom to fashion powerhouse wasn’t overnight—but Beckham made it happen. Ahead, we look back on her transformation from one-fifth of the Spice Girls to standalone designer.
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Here’s a riddle for you: What’s the next best thing after a Spice Girls reunion? If you answered “video footage of Victoria Beckham (a.k.a. Posh Spice) fist-pumping to ‘Spice Up Your Life’ at a London Fashion Week party,” then, congrats, you win a prize. The video in question was taken by Siobhan Bell, who posted it to Instagram: “Can’t actually believe @victoriabeckham a living legend ‘SPICE UP YOUR LIFE!’” she wrote in the caption.
According to The Cut, Bell filmed the video at the after-party Vogue threw for the tenth anniversary of Beckham’s eponymous fashion label. In it, Beckham (rocking a white pantsuit) can be seen leading the room in a dance-off while lip-synching along to the classic Spice Girls hit.
According to Vogue‘s recap of the festivities, the Fashion Week flash mob to “Spice Up Your Life” was actually the last song of the night. That’s a pretty good send-off, and we can thank DJ Fat Tony for gifting it to us, according to Vogue.
This is the second time this month that VB has done some fun throwbacks to her days as a Spice Girl. In early September she relived some of her iconic outfits for a British Vogue photo shoot, even throwing in some subtle lyrics while delivering a monologue to EIC Edward Enninful.
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Unfortunately, despite Beckham’s apparent enthusiasm for the Spice Girls’ past hits, it looks like she’s not planning to actually get up onstage and perform them anytime soon. Back in February she completely shut down all rumors of a Spice Girls reunion by telling British Vogue, “I’m not going on tour. The girls aren’t going on tour.”
But fingers crossed that she’s since changed her mind. In July, Mel B (a.k.a. Scary Spice) went on the Today show and said a reunion is definitely happening. “She’s always saying that,” Mel B said about Beckham’s comments.
“We are touring. Should I have really said that out loud?” added Mel B. “Yes, we are going to be doing performances together for sure.”